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Help to choose camera !

 
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APODman



登録日: 2011.01.08
記事: 34

記事日時: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:34 am    記事の件名: Help to choose camera ! 引用付きで返信

Hello !

I'm choosing between purchasing a Watec 902H camera (not the Ultimate or Supreme) or a camera KPC-350BH (PC164C). The specialists of the forum could give me a help to choose between the two which has major advantages in recording meteors and sprites?

KPC-350BH (PC164C)
- http://www.surveillance-video.com/kpkp420tvlic.html

Watec 902H
- http://www.aegis-elec.com/products/WAT902H.htm

I thank the attention.

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SonotaCo
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登録日: 2004.08.07
記事: 12653
所在地: 139.67E 35.65N

記事日時: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:25 am    記事の件名: Re: Help to choose camera ! 引用付きで返信

Hi
From the spec the difference seems
WAT-902H -- CCD:1/2inch, AGC: off/Lo(32db)/Hi(50db)
KPC-350BH -- CCD:1/3inch, AGC: off/on?

About the AGC, intermediate amplitude limit such as 32db is very useful on some case to keep noise level low. If the camera has only Hi level AGC then it will show big noise that bothers motion detection on usual night. So I think WAT-902H is better.

About the CCD size, if you can get 1/2inch good lenses such as CBC 8mmF0.8 you should prepare 1/2"CCD, but if you can get 1/3inch lens only, you would better to have 1/3"CCD cams.
But the CCD size is not absolute aspect, because most of the 1/3" varifocus lens such as FUJINON YV2.7x2.9LR4D-SA2 can be used with 1/2"CCD cams within the range of long focus length.

cheers
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APODman



登録日: 2011.01.08
記事: 34

記事日時: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:55 am    記事の件名: Re: Help to choose camera ! 引用付きで返信

SonotaCo wrote:
Hi
From the spec the difference seems
WAT-902H -- CCD:1/2inch, AGC: off/Lo(32db)/Hi(50db)
KPC-350BH -- CCD:1/3inch, AGC: off/on?

About the AGC, intermediate amplitude limit such as 32db is very useful on some case to keep noise level low. If the camera has only Hi level AGC then it will show big noise that bothers motion detection on usual night. So I think WAT-902H is better.

About the CCD size, if you can get 1/2inch good lenses such as CBC 8mmF0.8 you should prepare 1/2"CCD, but if you can get 1/3inch lens only, you would better to have 1/3"CCD cams.
But the CCD size is not absolute aspect, because most of the 1/3" varifocus lens such as FUJINON YV2.7x2.9LR4D-SA2 can be used with 1/2"CCD cams within the range of long focus length.

cheers


Really thanks for attention Sonotaco !

I really do not know if KPC possessed option AGC off, but I see in one website the results of a test between a Watec 902H2 Ultimate and a KPC-350BH and it seems that the sensitivity between the two is very similar, but the cost of a KPC is well lower:

- http://france.allsky.camera.free.fr/test-camera-en.html

The registration of meteors seems to have been satisfactory:

- http://france.allsky.camera.free.fr/observation_en.html

By your experience what do you think of the test results, they are realistic?


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SonotaCo
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登録日: 2004.08.07
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所在地: 139.67E 35.65N

記事日時: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:57 am    記事の件名: Re: Help to choose camera ! 引用付きで返信

Well...
The test was done only on very clear dark sky with a few stars. Therefore the defference of noise level or resolution cannot be seen. Also the video format(NTSC/PAL) were mixed. So I cannot comment about the result.

The importance of the cost is depend on the person. That is what I cannot say anything. But...
There are many people that choose lowcost ones at first but buy again more expensive ones later. I am one of those Wink .
So I recommend to get best ones available at first if there is notisable difference. On this reason, I am recommending WAT-902H3Ultimate for 1/3"lens users.
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APODman



登録日: 2011.01.08
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記事日時: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:48 pm    記事の件名: 引用付きで返信

Thanks Sonotaco,

I'll take your comments into account in the choice.

In really might be worthwhile to just buy one better camera than spending money twice.


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APODman



登録日: 2011.01.08
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記事日時: Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:54 am    記事の件名: Re: Help to choose camera ! 引用付きで返信

SonotaCo wrote:

But the CCD size is not absolute aspect, because most of the 1/3" varifocus lens such as FUJINON YV2.7x2.9LR4D-SA2 can be used with 1/2"CCD cams within the range of long focus length.


Mr. Sonotaco,

I was informed that the FUJINON YV2.7x2.9LR4D-SA2 lens fits for ccd 1/3" and cause this it would cause a"tunnel effect" in the image. It could cause a substantial loss or distortion in the final image ?

Regards
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登録日: 2004.08.07
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記事日時: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:01 am    記事の件名: Re: Help to choose camera ! 引用付きで返信

APODman wrote:
I was informed that the FUJINON YV2.7x2.9LR4D-SA2 lens fits for ccd 1/3" and cause this it would cause a"tunnel effect" in the image. It could cause a substantial loss or distortion in the final image ?


WAT-902H3Ultimate(1/3") + FUJINON YV2.7x2.9LR4D-SA2(1/3" vali-focus 2.9-8mm ) : OK for all vari-focus range
WAT-902H2Ultimate(1/2") + FUJINON YV2.7x2.9LR4D-SA2(1/3" vali-focus 2.9-5mm ) : NG
WAT-902H2Ultimate(1/2") + FUJINON YV2.7x2.9LR4D-SA2(1/3" vali-focus 5mm-8mm ) : Almost OK
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APODman



登録日: 2011.01.08
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記事日時: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:54 am    記事の件名: Re: Help to choose camera ! 引用付きで返信

SonotaCo wrote:
APODman wrote:
I was informed that the FUJINON YV2.7x2.9LR4D-SA2 lens fits for ccd 1/3" and cause this it would cause a"tunnel effect" in the image. It could cause a substantial loss or distortion in the final image ?


WAT-902H3Ultimate(1/3") + FUJINON YV2.7x2.9LR4D-SA2(1/3" vali-focus 2.9-8mm ) : OK for all vari-focus range
WAT-902H2Ultimate(1/2") + FUJINON YV2.7x2.9LR4D-SA2(1/3" vali-focus 2.9-5mm ) : NG
WAT-902H2Ultimate(1/2") + FUJINON YV2.7x2.9LR4D-SA2(1/3" vali-focus 5mm-8mm ) : Almost OK


There had been some sensible decrease in the number of meteors that can be captured in one night with a WAT-902H3Ultimate compared with the version with 1/2" ccd ( both with the same lens ) ?

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記事日時: Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:04 pm    記事の件名: Re: Help to choose camera ! 引用付きで返信

APODman wrote:
( both with the same lens ) ?

???
From the spec, the minimum illumination of WAT902H2U is 0.0001lx, while WAT902H3U is 0.0002lx. Therefore if both FOV size and F number of lens is equal, then WAT902H2U will show noticeable advantage. But iif you use same lens(same focus length), you get different FOV size, so the comparison will be meaningless.
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APODman



登録日: 2011.01.08
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記事日時: Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:00 am    記事の件名: 引用付きで返信

Dear Sonotaco,

Finally got all the necessary equipment according to your recommendations:

Camera - Watec 902h2 Ultimate (PAL)
Lens - Fujinon 1 / 3 "2.9-8mm F/0.95
Canopus ADVC 55
Firewire board

Today I try the first light of the camera but some problem happen, the image acquired ( through wxAstrocapture ) presented as below:




Yet the UFOCapture don´t worked, the following message are displayed when press the "Preview" button:




Some idea of the errors that may be occurring ?

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登録日: 2004.08.07
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所在地: 139.67E 35.65N

記事日時: Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:42 pm    記事の件名: 引用付きで返信

APODman wrote:
Camera - Watec 902h2 Ultimate (PAL)


You should set Xi = 720, Yi = 576, Fps=25.0 if the video format of the camera is PAL.
May be you would better to "Read Setting" PF720x576N.ufi on the Operation sheet, if you want to do night sky observation.
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APODman



登録日: 2011.01.08
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記事日時: Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:57 am    記事の件名: 引用付きで返信

Thank you by the tips Sonotaco ! The first light of camera was a sucess !

I will try register the Lyrids shower today ( and buy a license to the UFOCapture ).


Best regards !



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